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Interview Ms. Kuristina Oyama 29 June 2009

Q) How did your family cope in the period just after Sosai’s passing?

"Orphaned" is the word that I use to describe what I felt. It was devastating for all of us, especially for my mother. A year earlier, my nephew had also passed away in a car accident. It was my parent’s first grandchild and was a boy so you can imagine how joyous Sosai and Mother were. On top of this tragedy, to have our life partner and father leave so suddenly was very difficult for all of us. I think that Mother was very strong to pull through losing a grandson, then a husband, and then to have to watch Kyokushin torn apart.

Q) How did you feel about the so-called "Emergency Will”?
(Readers please note that it will be referred as the "will" in some paragraphs).

First of all, when it was announced that Sosai had left a "will", we were never told that it was an "Emergency will”.

By the time I got back from New York (where I was attending college), the funeral was finished and Sosai's ashes were in an urn. I missed it by one day. Also my second sister was in labor with her child so she also could not make it back until a few weeks later.

It was devastating, given that my eldest sister and my mother did not arrange the funeral- it was all "scripted" and scheduled out by people on Matsui's side, mainly Yamada, who was back then a Branch chief of Jyoto (east) area of Tokyo and who also happens to be the person who brought Gorai into Kyokushin at this time. Gorai was Shigeru Oyama's student and was expelled by him. I don't know what made Sosai even think of letting Gorai be a Branch Chief in NYC. The only explanation is that there were no Kyokushin dojos in Manhattan- if that can be a good reason! Later on Sosai did express his concern of his decision and asked some US Branch chiefs to "watch" Gorai carefully. Needless to say, we don't hear anything gracious about him.

On the morning Sosai passed away my mother got a call around 6 am from the uchi deshi who was also Sosai's driver. He said Sosai was suffering from respiratory difficulty. A few hours earlier, my mother was at the hospital and Sosai had taken my mother's soup before he laid down to rest so she was shocked to hear this.

When Mother arrived at the hospital, Sosai was taking in his last breaths. Mother later recalled how strange it was that Royama and Yamada were already at the hospital amongst the five "witnesses", earlier than her. They did not even speak to her and we found out later, Royama was already making seating arrangements for the funeral! People were just "crowding" the space, not giving Mother any privacy so the Head Nurse had to usher everyone out. Dr. Shinohara (Dr. Shinohara of St. Luke's International Hospital in Tokyo) had to get security because Yamada was the one refusing an autopsy. Mind you, he is not, in anyway related to us.

When my father, Sosai, had called me in New York a day earlier, I had not fathomed anything like this. (He called evening of the 25th ; in NY it was morning.) Sosai had left a message on my answering machine. When I called the hospital back he had already passed away.

None of us was informed in details of the circumstances under which the "will" had been fabricated. The so-called five “witnesses” to the paper announced, “Sosai has left a will”, which gave false impression that there had been some kind of an agreement made over several years or something. Before I even saw the document I knew that something was off, when we were refused access to the actual paper and asked not to speak to a lawyer. During one of the court hearings on the legitimacy of the "will" it was claimed by the five witnesses that they made Sosai, a cancer patient, take 5-6 hours sometimes more, for 3 days (April 17, 18, 19) to write this "will". Mother who was at the hospital everyday had not even heard of this taking place! I am sure you can now see why we are so wary of Matsui and even Royama who paraded around this.

One of the key people who stood by us in court to rebut the validity of the "will" was Dr. Hinohara Shigeaki from St. Luke's Hospital where Sosai was getting his treatment. They had known each other for over 40 years. In his court statement he said that on the days when Matsui's group claimed the writing of the "will" took place, Dr. Hinohara had clearly asked Sosai of his intentions- especially regarding the organization. After being my father's personal doctor for so long, he frankly told Sosai of his condition after the surgery. For a man his age, Sosai was wonderfully fit but he will not be able to continue with the strenuous work schedule. He asked Sosai (in these exact words), "Have you thought of a successor?" Have you thought who can succeed you after you retire?". Dr. Hinohara said "I can feel how deeply Sosai had been thinking about it." His answer to Dr. Hinohara's question was, "No, there is no one. It will take me 3~5 years to appoint one".

If you show that "Emergency Will" to any lawyer who has sufficient knowledge and experience with inheritance law, they will automatically tell you that the way it's written was designed to make sure that nothing but debts were left to the Oyama family. One of the very first lawyers who took our case was appalled by this “will”. In a will every sentence, and how it is worded, shapes and defines the situation (in the legal system). In that so-called “will”, any "benefit" to the family was all obscure and absolutely not legally binding. However, all the mortgages and loans left in Sosai 's name, even if it were company or organization mortgages were left to the family- largely Mother.

One thing that immediately clicked in my head as not making sense, was the part stipulating that my mom should not have anything to say in regard to Kyokushin affairs. This is just not the kind of thing my father would say. I knew that instinctively.

People (some) say Sosai "will not leave the organization" to the family. The point is that if the organization was left to "someone" or an entity, why would they need to forge/ fabricate a will of the founder and deform the essence of what he stood for- and would anyone stay quiet about it? Whether the meaning of what Sosai wrote in a book can be taken as a "testament" of his wishes, it does not entitle an individual or group of branch chiefs to run off and do what they like.

Matsui's group appealed the case to High Court and eventually to the Supreme Court when the Family Court rejected and deemed invalid, the "will" which was the reason Matsui had "positioned" himself as Kancho.

The verdict from the High Court stated, "... not only the "Emergency Will" did not fulfill the legal procedures necessary, but to have a patient suffering (from cancer) held in long hours, without their appointed doctor nor his spouse and/ or an officer from the public notary office present while the procedure took place, diminishes the morality in circumstances the witnesses took to make the "Emergency Will". All five witnesses are interested parties to the contents of the paperwork which violates the legal procedure to validate it as a "will" of Masutatsu Oyama.

"On a more personal note, (this is hardly ever done in Japan where a verdict has personal comments) the legal basis of the "Emergency will" is the subject passes away within two weeks from the day it is written. If the circumstances were that the subjects (Sosai's) life was shortened even by one day, it can be looked as forced death. It is morally, ethically as well as legally, impossible to say that these were Oyama's wishes".

Q) How and why did Matsui remain Kancho after the verdict?

Because the verdict pertained to the "will", not the "function of the organization". Matsui was quick to have Goda and Royama on his side. People generally follow what is familiar to them. Bottom line is, we didn't understand the politics in Kyokushin back then.

Q) Some say the family's involvement in the organization is actually against Sosai's wishes.
What are your thoughts on that?

Kyokushin sustained the family as well as the Branch Dojo's. My brother-in-law was the one who made and organized the Kyokushin Weight Division Tournament and held it annually in Osaka. He also had the title "Kansai- Honbu cho" (Western Japan HQ) by Sosai. Sosai actually spoke to Makoto Nakamura since it included his area too.

What is normal now to hold a tournament- it was a matter of serious financial difficulty and every year my family were also involved in collecting sponsors. What is normal now to see Kyokushin merchandises, it was Mother who first made the gi's before Isami and incorporated the royalty system. It was her company (of which my father was a board member) that made Kyokushin Merchandises for all World Tournaments and All Japan Tournaments. My parents went out in middle of the night, with Uchideshi's to put up the posters around the city. The monthly magazine "Power Karate" was Mother 's company and Sosai did all the editing and hired people for the creative processes. Mother designed the certificates and membership cards, stamped all the numbers on tournament tickets by hand with my relatives. Poster designing was done by Sosai and Mother, who was also an artist. Grace was translating for my father since she was 11 years old. Mother design all World Tournament merchandises. There are many parts of Kyokushin we were involved in- it was not only done by the students/ Branch Chiefs. It is selfish and calculating of them to say that knowingly. Some Branch Chiefs make belittling claims- but most of them lived so far from us and Honbu! How could they have known anything about us? Traveling from Singapore or Hawaii was not an easy a flight, as it is now- even Brazil is still far. They only saw Sosai once every few years- or on lucky times once a year?

It seemed as though "students" were coming in to take everything off the family. Especially in the beginning when the "will" was used against us. To me it was deplorable how few of the "higher ranks" acted as they were also involved in the process of the "will".

We all play by the same rule- just different roles. It is our right as much as the Branch chiefs- to be concerned of the organizational structure. People see the glory of Sosai' Kyokushin, but seldom remember or know how much it took for him to accomplish them. How much Mother and the family were part of it. His days as an underdog were much longer than the successful ones.

For us the way in which Matsui (his group) repeatedly said “I was appointed by the will” showed a lack of moral intelligence and integrity, because the “will” was yet to be validated and, in fact, it never was. Had Matsui (or anyone else who supported it) understood that the contents of fabricated "will" was ludicrous and separated the succession as "Kancho" from the inheritance, it would have cut 80% of the devastation. This is something that remains true to me to this day. He simply did not take full-responsibility while acting as the "successor of Sosai".

Even before the "will" was rejected by the court, Matsui had publicly stated (we were already so dismayed by his attitude) “If the will gets rejected, I’ll leave Honbu." Then when the rejection was finalized in the Supreme Courts, he made other excuses such as Matsui "heard he was named as a successor"afterwards and ended up staying...! Finally, we had no choice but to get a court order to evict him.

His attitude did slightly change after the Family Court quickly rejected the "will", but by then emotional scars had run deep in us. We all felt the person who is supposed to be the "successor" will be like one of my family members. I feel that is the kind of feeling that we should have been getting, but from Matsui it was almost as if he had resentment for us.

My mother is the woman who basically sustained my father through his life, even before Matsui was born. So to me, the sensible thing is that she is given the utmost respect. And she was not a difficult person: she was always very compliant and very polite. Even if people do want you to be the Kancho, you just don’t treat people like that – especially the wife of Sosai. To us this revealed Matsui's own short-comings as a person which he hid behind his talent. Many of the things that Matsui and his lawyers did were absolutely deplorable.

Currently Mr. Royama regurgitates to that "will" to try to justify their actions to reinstate this "Foundation". This particular foundation has not been active for over 30 years. Sosai had not held annual meetings and never had annual audit reported. Only to change a board member occasionally but no activities were reported. We were curious as to why that was and the answer was clear when we got to know Umeda. He has no idea what is going on but dwells in "social status". Even after legally losing any form of rights to Kyokushin, Umeda still refuses to resign....! Needless to say, Royama is using it as a promotional banner but it is not legally reinstated. The permanent address of this Foundation is at OUR address still, which is Honbu's. They can't change the address because, it is not active.

The concept of a government-recognized foundation is truly wonderful but in this situation I have a problem with the people involved. Inheritance is, and should be a private matter. This is why I feel certain kind of vulgarity watching when a third party irresponsibly "uses" it for their own purpose, like in the case of Royama/Umeda and Matsui.

Goda, Matsui and Sanepi were all in Nepal when Sosai passed away. I was later told that Matsui was constantly on the phone, speaking to Yamada (supposedly). When Sosai passed, it was THEN Matsui told them Sosai.... passed. He did not tell them when Sosai was in critical condition. Goda was angry because they wanted to rush back to Japan- had they known about Sosai's condition earlier, they would have made it back to see their teacher on time.

Upon their return, Goda and Sanpei told us Matsui's attitude "changed" as soon as he found out Sosai died. He was not panicky or shocked- just very retained. When they got off the plane in Narita, they were greeted by people one of the was Akira Kurosawa retired Yamaguchi Gumi leader (Yakuza clan in Japan) . So it seemed as though the funeral arrangements, not waiting for me and the "announcement" of Matsui being next Kancho was a pretty neat line up schemed by someone. So this is the "peripheral" of what surrounded exhibition of the "will".

The "organizational structure" was completely ignored by having Matsui act as though he was a "replica" of Sosai. And everyone let him. When the Branch chief Commitee (Nishida and Sampei) could not replaced Matsui as Kancho, no one exercised their given privileges so they abandoned it or surrendered to Matsui's system.

Matsui had the trademark registration in his name. From legal perspective all Branch Chiefs and the Committee members etc, abandoned their privileges given by Sosai. Although Sosai was the almighty one to make final decisions, there was the structure that was used to make those decisions which they could have used.

As an example, people who were not Branch Chiefs started to become one in different groups all having same name and supposedly teaching the accordingly to Sosai.

What happened to the family financially after Sosai passed away?

Within the first week there was a lock down of all the accounts. We couldn’t move accounts that were in my father 's name and the account that was in the company or the organization name were moved to Matsui, as he was then assumed to have succeeded Kyokushin. Mother couldn’t move her account because my father still had mortgage on the family house which was from the same bank as the one he had borrowed the loan from.

Q) What made it possible for them to get away with this?

Some of the accounts were in Sosai’s name, but most were in the name of Kyokushinkaikan, which of course meant the next "successor" manages it. Others were in a company name that Matsui wanted to take over. Matsui's accountant had gone and informed the banks that Matsui was the legal successor. He was well known, so they had no reason to doubt it.

When Sosai was alive there wasn’t a clear separation of the monies: there was money in accounts under different company names or under the Kyokushin name, but it wasn’t clear which was “organizational” money and which was “private” money.

As a result, around the time he made the official announcement about being the next Kancho, Matsui basically just took over everything by being supposedly appointed by the written will. Basically we had to ask for his permission to access our monies. So we were told.

It is important for people to understand that, as I mentioned, these actions of Matsui were performed before the "Emergency will" had even been validated (and it never was). This case was highly unusual in that the "will" got legally rejected by the court before it was even acknowledged as one by others.

Q) What do you think about the misinformation that has been circulated concerning Kyokushin and your family since Sosai passed away?

I feel that nobody has been held accountable for all the information that has been spewed out. Everybody talks about things, but very few people are willing to take responsibility for the things that have been said. So many people speculate, or deliberately mislead students, and it feeds on fear and paranoia. So many rumours start by things being blown out of proportion. I feel I need to directly address the misconceptions that people have. This is why I would like to use the website as a "conduit" for releasing was has happened, the truth.

Q) Why do you think that so many people failed to consider the family enough?

I don’t know if many people” failed" to show consideration for the circumstances, but I can say that the ones making the organizational and legal decisions did fall short. I can even recall how gleeful and excited some Branch Chiefs appeared during (traditional Buddhist) the 49-day mourning period after Sosai’s passing. On the day I arrived back from New York, Goda said I was "coming home on a boat". Horrifying, because I can't grasp how that comment can come from a student especially knowing my ticket was not prepared.

Quite embarrassingly, I had never bought ticket on my own. Usually everything was set up by the airline because JAL was one of main sponsors for the World Tournaments. No one from Honbu informed them to have my ticket ready which was the first thing my mother asked to be done. I was in tears at the JAL Manhattan Branch. My plane arrived the day after my father was cremated. That afternoon I was sitting in the office by the Honbu entrance and I heard laughter coming down the stairs. It was Matsui and Yamada. Matsui came over to me, but it had nothing to do with showing mourn or empathy. They could have showed more restraint and respect in my opinion. It made me very, very sad to even feel that way.

Years later, one of the old Branch Chief's from Sosai recalled that time and said, "We were all so excited about the new era, with Matsui that we did not even think of what was going on until Matsui had become a rude, cold, manipulating, mediocre business man who had no sense of business, with a monkey called Gorai hanging over his ear. "(laugh) . So I guess from a student/BC point of view, it may not have been about mourning only, but moving forward.

In regards to the family and Kyokushin, I think one of the biggest misconceptions that got propagated about us, and I can only speak for myself, was that we would “dictate” the karate. It is scary for many, who have trained long enough for the ego to develop, to feel like it is "theirs" being taken away and that it is no one else's. Those feelings are understandable, but also important to recall that it is Sosai's karate they represent and teach to the public. So a more balanced outlook is crucial, which most of the Branch Chiefs did not have back then. Legally inherited rights are not about the experiences in the dojo. This is where people got confused, especially the Branch Chiefs. It did not help that my brother-in-law was also quite bossy (laugh). I think people harbored this unspoken resentment to him which I later recalled. These things can be put into perspective later but it is hard when emotions are running so high.

I think secondly, people were afraid and the divisiveness just fed on the fear. Many never had the chance to get to know us in person, which never helped either. We were known as “Sosai’s Family”, but nobody really knew us, even the uchideshi's had only three years in the dorm. When people meet me, they are surprised by how vastly different I am from what they imagined me to be or what they had been told about me. (laugh)

Thirdly, I think Matsui (and others) had falsely propagated many ideas and one of them was the family being taken care of financially, which was absolutely not the case. For a few months after my father passed my mother did receive monetary support from Umeda as a "salary". But as soon as the “will” was taken to a lawyer to be checked for us, they stopped. They also stopped all payments for the utilities and we were unable to pay the house loan since Sosai's accounts had all been frozen from us. Added to this, the hiring of the lawyers was very expensive as Matsui battled it all the way to the Supreme Court.

We had to evict Matsui because he refused to leave nor hold meetings lawfully with and through our lawyers, exhausting Mother's savings. He insisted he was paying rental fee to the court which was "held" by Matsui's accountant until the cases were over. Everytime Matsui spoke of his "duty by the will", I pointed out to him that on that piece of paper, each family member was supposed to be given certain amount- and where is that? (laugh) His duty was very selective.

I have been around my father and Kyokushin long enough to know what a student is and what a teacher is. It amazes me to this day how a person like Matsui, who pretty much had all the tools needed to run and succeed after Sosai, failed so.... miserably. He not only disgraced Kyokushin, but Sosai as well. It truly is a shame. Having said that, he is doing amazingly as his group called Kyokushin.

So needless to say, I have formed my opinion on who is really respectful to Sosai or is just using his name for their benefit.

Q) Within a year of Sosai’s passing, your mother became the Kancho of a group led by Shihan Takagi, didn’t she? Could you tell us about this?

Before I begin to explain, I want you to know a bit about Takagi Kaoru. He was one of those branchchiefs who excelled at spreading Kyokushin in his area and were really devoted to Sosai. He came over to our home a few times. Not many Branch Chiefs were invited "into" the family from Sosai, perhaps others were Goda and Miyake (who is still Honbu's Chairman). He visited me with my father when I lived abroad too and Sosai seemed at ease around Takagi. So Takagi did have that immediate trust and closeness from Mother as well.

Naturally all Branch chiefs were shocked and doubtful when they heard about the "will" and people were seeing Matsui was already acting as though he was the King. Takagi (he was one of the 53 Branch Chiefs of Sosai’s time) and a number of other branch chiefs also doubted whether the "Emergency Will" had really been the words of Sosai. As I mentioned Takagi was quite close to Sosai over the years: he came to New York with my father 2 years before Sosai passed away but something happened and he was "replaced" as Sosai's close confidante and then the one who stepped in was Yonezu from Yamada's dojo who also happened to be one of the "witnesses" for the rejected "will".

Takagi and several others had been kicked out of Matsui’s group for talking to the family about their suspicion of the "will". The five branch chiefs wondered aloud why they had not heard of Matsui from Sosai and also the fact that Matsui had quit Kyokushin for a few years to work as a driver/body guard for Kyoeichu (A Korean-Japanese underworld figure from Osaka who is now in prison serving his sentences). Many speculated about Matsui's intent and what motivated him to come back.

Mother’s lawyer also became their (Takagi and four others) lawyer as the "will" being legally validated or not was the key to everything.

Back then (like 15 years ago) Matsui had already submitted the paperwork for the Kyokushin trademark in his name which was dated May 13th. This was just a few weeks after Sosai had passed away and it really enraged us. It was also scary that he or someone he had hired, already prepared the paperwork before Sosai had passed without speaking or discussing with the family. Patent Attorney's can't complete such paperwork in few days and submit them. This was his downfall really. He had the technical skills but really lacked the moral compass needed to lead Kyokushin and as a person too.

When Takagi (and four others) petitioned against being expelled from Kyokushin by Matsui, the courts took the position that Kyokushin was an organization that didn’t qualify for court intervention. This basically meant that this kind of dispute had to be resolved between the parties involved. At this point, the Takagi group felt that they needed a symbolic figure-head, so they asked my mother to be the Kancho. She agreed based on the condition that actions were taken in the best interests of Sosai’s karate and his organization. The Takagi group said that they would fight with us and also bring people back to Sosai.

Q) What happened to the Takagi-group when the Nishida-Sanpei group broke away from Matsui?

They merged together on "paper". (laugh). It was just a matter of time but territorial fight started as soon as they tried to decide on something.

Before the Nishida- Sampei group (they were known as the Branch Chief Committee then) actually left Matsui’s group, many of the Branch Chiefs weren’t going to abide by what Matsui allowed Gorai to do, such as changing the kata (to Gorai's suggestions) and introducing the annual registration system. At this time, a large group of them came to my mother’s lawyer’s office. And surprise - Hiroshige (Royama's vice-Chairman) was the leading figure of them back then! The lawyer said that we needed to sustain the organization IKO Kyokushinkaikan by putting proper structures in place. They approached my mother about her becoming the figurehead. So she became Kancho as asked, but it was our intention for the Nishida-Sanpei people to work with those from the Takagi-group to set up proper functional organizational structures on legal basis.

Q) What do you think she (Mrs. Oyama) expected from the Branch Chiefs at this time?

She wanted to make sure that this “Emergency Will” wasn’t going to lead to the destruction of Kyokushin. Secondly, she wanted to ensure that the family was not robbed of everything that belonged to us. I mean, we were actually asked to leave Honbu (as our residence) by Matsui. He asked us why we were staying there when, we also had a house in another place (which had stupendous amount of mortgage. The bank later repossessed and sold it at a public auction). I told him that I had lived there even when I was in my mother’s womb and before Matsui started training! He was very rude and inconsiderate. It was not JUST Matsui that was rude, even Goda was! (laugh). The ones that were pretentiously nice were Royama and Hiroshige (laugh). Anyway, Honbu was the very place where Sosai resided until he was hospitalized just before his passing. I just couldn’t believe that they could say things like this to people who has just lost a husband and a father.

As such, when people came together as in the situation mentioned above, we expected appointed Branch Chiefs to keep what they already had in terms of privileges. But instead, Tezuka told Kojima (whom he shared Chiba prefecture with in terms of dojos) to close down their dojo and work underneath him, because he had started working with my mom first. In this way, some of the Takagi-group branch chiefs tried to pull rank. The same thing happened in Fukushima with Anzai and Sanpei. Because Sanpei came after him, in Anzai’s head Sanpei should close his dojos. My mother voiced that she did not see this as fair, as the appointed places were given by Sosai. They didn’t want to listen and fights started to happen. It was supposed to structure the organization, not playing on the playground, fighting for your toys. (sigh)

Later, when the Takagi-group and the Nishida-Sanpei group had supposedly both joined to work with the family, we went to the World Tournament, which was supposed to be jointly held. When we got there we were surprised to realize that the Takagi-group was not there. Later, I asked Tezuka (who was with the Takagi-group) what was going on, he said that they didn’t want to work with Sanpei. Unfortunately at that time we weren’t politically "savvy" enough to know the kind of measures necessary to do the damage control.

I do want to set the record straight though: it’s not true that my mother “jumped groups” as some people try to make it seem. On her behalf I would like to say that I don’t think she saw any sort of divisions amongst students: to her they were all Sosai’s students. Just... some of them had horrible manners and very bad taste compared to others.

Q) So what happened to those branch-chiefs who were left over with Takagi?

For a while they continued to function as the "Takagi-group", but later Takagi and Tezuka parted ways.

Q) So your mother was the leader of the Nishida-Sanpei group for only a few years? What kind of relationship was it?

I don't think the word leader defined her. She was not there to lead; the leading part was Nishida's and Sanpei's responsibility. People like Nishida and Sanpei said that they disagreed with what Matsui was doing: that it wasn’t Sosai’s Kyokushin. So you don’t really expect them to do the exact same thing as Matsui, but in a more mediocre way.

What they did was, instead of fighting for Honbu, they left that problem up to Mother. My mom is the one who took Matsui to court for the building, for the monthly magazine "Power Karate", and for the trademarks. AND she is the one who paid for the court cases. I was a part of the paperwork – doing the research – but all of the court actions were in my mom’s name. Given that my Japanese was poor back then, it really is shocking that none of them offered to help! Meanwhile, they had their little new office in Iidabashi and they were continuing to recruit students and do seminars all over the world, but nothing was really supportive of what my mother was doing in court.

For me it was one of the most frustrating times of my life to see how calculating they got. To this day they try to make it seem like Matsui was the bad one and they were like knights in shining armor. That is not at all true. At least Matsui is blantantly clear in regard to his intentions, which oddly makes him honest in a way- not truthful, but honest. However, Nishida/ Sampei type-they give this impression that "Mrs Oyama" had just turned around one day and told them to leave. That is very inaccurate. For Nishida, Sanpei and Midori not to have been supportive of my mother just showed how selfish they were about the whole process. I mean, they asked her to be their Kancho as well. My mom was spending her own money to try to protect these students who had been complaining about how Matsui had mistreated them. They didn’t even seem appreciative of what she did.

Oohama from Hiroshima prefecture (now under Midori) actually collected donations in the name of the court cases and he ended up using the money to open an Okonomiyaki (Japanese unsweetened pancakes) restaurant for himself! He was the Head Secretary at the Nishida-Sanpei group office in the beginning and had made an account in my mother’s name. He would collect funds to supposedly support us, but not actually give any of it to my mom. When an investigation stepped in, it turned out he was sending funds monthly to a personal account of his and also an account he had made in Mother's name as Kancho. When all of this was brought to light we asked Tabata, Shichinohe, Miwa, and Sakamoto (now members of the Kyokushin Union) to make it a criminal case. They didn't or couldn't, as I think looking back now, they did not want to be the "Voice of the Doom". It was cowardly of them.

Q) What was the trigger for ending the relationship?

Looking back now, I don't think Nishida ever had the intention to return. So that mentality of course, rubbed off on others.

When Matsui’s group was legally evicted from Honbu, we asked the Nishida-Sanpei group to gather for a meeting. My mother wasn’t well. We had been trying so hard to make a proper organization with Nishida and Sanpei, but both simply refused to do so. Once they found out that the “Emergency Will” was invalid, they seemed to think they could do anything they wanted, which in their case was to completely forget why they had displaced Matsui as Kancho. And they acted very irresponsibly. They were so hypocritical they didn’t want to make rules. For two years we were working with lawyers to convince Sanpei that they needed to make an infrastructure. Everything needs to be based on legalities. They didn’t want to do that because they wanted to do things their own way. Whatever they did affected us a lot because they were still Kyokushin. They used the name, they used my father’s name, and they even used copyrighted material without permission.

Also, at that time there was already a split starting to occur within their group: the people who ended up forming the Kyokushin Union and the group that went with Midori. The people who later formed the Union initially didn’t want Mother to resign but they didn’t have enough power to salvage what Nishida and Sanpei were doing. So I said to them that I didn’t think my mother should have to fight for them anymore. I didn’t think she should have to go to court, spend exhausting hours in the law office and spend stupendous amounts of money and then be told that she’s a liar. They implied that she was a woman who would go where the most money was. This is not something I could forgive easily, and I will not forget it. Though I have worked around a way not to let it dictate my life, I am very wary of some of these people. They hid behind my mother’s back and made her fight for the things that they should have also been fighting about.

Q) What do you think the Nishida-Sanpei group should have done differently?

As a group, they should have treated her like a lotus flower (laugh). They should have been more hands on with the court cases and worked with me and the lawyers.

But more importantly, they should have trained their soul. All of them, not one- I can I want as my teacher. I think they have done the physical training: a lot obviously. However none translated into the world, to daily life. It is easy to preach about something in a dojo- to live it, is quite another. They both were very quick and eager to run away as soon as it became "too hot in the kitchen", so to speak (sigh).

Q) How do you feel about Midori?

Unfortunately, he has made some very bad choices, which have required us to take legal action. He has very bad advisors and a mediocre lawyer- who is the one that made them "alter" their group name to "Shin Kyokushin". This was a really insipid move, I must say. My mother was fond of him in the beginning- before he was made a "president". However, I am to this day still affected by his choice to change the right of my father's and family’s grave to be registered under his name without even the courtesy of speaking to us. He also lies to his people, which I truly find distasteful, especially because I suspect many believe in him.

Q) Can you tell us about this incident with Sosai's grave in a little more detail?

Well, it is a long story...

Mother attempted to bring people back together and one of the things she thought about was having a gravesite built for my father. The idea of buying a grave for Sosai was presented by Soeno Kancho from Shidokan. (He was formerly a Kyokushin Branch chief). He asked permission from Mother to form a committee to purchase the land for the grave at Gokokuji cemetery in the Oyama family name. This was intended to allow everyone to come in the most respectful way, so my mother agreed.

Soeno and Yamazaki Terutomo (who is also the first All Japan Champion of Kyokushin) suggested to my mother that we get together and make a gravesite for Sosai. Midori was furious that my mother spoke to them about that matter rather than coming to him. When Iriki (from the same group) heard Mother was speaking to Soeno Kancho, Nishida (then the president) and Sanpei apparently all felt threatened. Iriki then spoke to Midori, as they wanted to be included in the process, which is fine of course. What I was not aware of was Nishida’s cursed relationship with Soeno Kancho from long ago. Mother asked Soeno Kancho (Shidokan) as on of the old students of Sosai to bring everyone together because he was not involved in the Kyokushin politics and had known him for a long time. However, Nishida and Midori refused to work with Soeno Kancho or with anyone in fact. They didn't really explain to her (Mother) either, which added more doubt about Midori's intentions. From my mother’s perspective, all of them were Sosai’s students, and to see them fighting really stressed her.

At this point, Soeno went and spoke to Matsui and Midori. They were unable to all work together, so we eventually ended up with two memorial sites. The memorial at Mt Mitsumine was built by Soeno with some of the funds contributed by Matsui.

My mother said that she wanted a gravesite together with my dad and Gokokuji is close to Honbu and one of the running routes that the uchi-deshi used to run. So my mother thought Gokokuji would be a good place and even though the cost of the gravesite was eye-popping.

Q) In the end, the funds for the gravestone came from Midori’s fundraising?

The fundraising was sanctioned by Mother. And it was her who paid the "down payment". Or else the particular space could not be reserved. Without her, people would not have responded. Some fundraising were unauthorized – such as the ones they did at individual dojos. It’s always better to know the exact source of all money and Mother was explicit about that and how it should be opened to everyone. Which of course they did not listen- they were so nervous about Matsui giving more money than they, they actually asked us if they can put a limit to the donation from him and his group. (roll eyes)

Q) What happened on the day to put Sosai’s ashes in the grave?

On the day that we were going to put my father’s ashes in, we noticed that Matsui wasn’t there. I called him on his mobile and he said he could not come, as it was organized by Midori. I later learned that Yanagiwatari (a branch chief of the Nishida-Sanpei group) had asked that Matsui not be let in. IF Matsui came, the students were told to make him sit in the back row....! My partner Suzuki was then one of the many tournament participants so he was amongst one of them, poor thing. That was devastating, especially to Mother as she didn’t want any politics on that day. Especially in the midst of political divisiveness, it was very important for her to see everyone come together... but it was nipped at the bud by Midori.

On top of this, a truly horrifying thing was that the invitations for people invited by the family were never even sent out! The only (and I mean only) person who was invited was Mr. Miyake, who has been with us from Sosai's time and still is- the Honbu Committee Chairman. It was shocking. My uncle was not invited, and neither were any of my relatives. It was all Midori's guests. I was broken; we were all broken. My mother was speechless; we were all speechless. When that happened that was the last straw for her: she just didn’t want to have anything to do with Midori or with that group.

When you are treated as product, people put their hands all over you. This is what happened to Mother. I swore to myself then, that I would never allow anything like that to happen to us again. That is when we decided Mother should step down as their Kancho and be free. She went to Matsui's World Tournament later that year. She had tea with whomever she wanted to. And why not? It was a mistake to politically use her when she was not about that. Her Kancho position was a role which should have been to better everything for the whole of Kyokushinkaikan, but this wasn't the case with Midori's group.

Q) What happened in regard to the ownership registration of the grave?

One day we received a letter from Midori saying that we were "invited" to the 7th anniversary of my father’s passing. I thought it was strange at the time that Midori was inviting us to our own family grave memorial. So I called Gokokuji Temple to see what was going on and asked them whose name the gravesite was under. They told us that Midori had changed the registration from my mother’s name to his own name.

I went in to the temple with our lawyers. I called Midori but he wouldn’t return my calls and I eventually got in contact with Tokujun Ishii who gave me nothing but excuses. You don’t do that to someone’s grave. More so, as a student, you don’t use it for political purposes.

I reported this whole affair to a popular weekly magazine in Japan and about a week after the article came out Midori called me. He then came to meet me and promised to change the name of the grave back to my mother’s. It is now finally in the family name. Thanks to the Editor in Chief.

Q) Back to recent events: What do you think about the fact that Matsui changed his group into a stock company, whose legal purpose is essentially to make profit?

There is nothing wrong with making money; it is how you make it. It is the intention and what motivates you that counts. It’s okay to have a corporate entity, far better than pretending not to be, but actually being obsessed with money and power.

However in regards to Kyokushin Karate, I think it is better to have an entity that is about service. Our product, if we can call it that, is teaching and sharing something that ultimately should better people lives. You want people to feel enlivened and full of life after training and taking Sosai's teachings it into their own lives. That is our purpose you see?

The payment in the form of training fees and other fees is payment to that exchange of "energy". In Japan the monthly fee paid to the teacher or dojo is called "Gessha" which means "monthly gratitude". Money is a necessity, but the purpose of Kyokushin should not be about money. Sosai did say to not be a slave to money, which is a great advice.

Sosai's Kyokushin is so influential. If we guide it in the right way, it could have such a tremendous effect on so many areas. I truly believe that Sosai was not just a martial artist. He was also a philosopher, a philanthropist, and an inspiration to so many people who didn’t even train karate. I don’t know why some Branch Chiefs have to be so narrow-minded about this issue with finances. One cannot exist on vapor, nor do we need not to cheat people to be comfortable.

Q) Matsui has claimed to have financially supported the family. What is the truth?

Really? We don't hear anything from the man himself. He even refused to pay court appointed lawyer fees. Well, he does talk about it all the time- for the last fifteen years if that counts. Maybe he thinks "talking" about it repeatedly makes it manifest.

"Support" is a wonderful spirit and I do hope he can one day truly act on what he says.
He was paying for a few months in 1994, but the reason why he was paying was very tricky and calculating. After the bank accounts were frozen, he started to give my mother money through Umeda, saying that it was the amount that my father used to get paid. But they said that they added 1,000,000 yen, so in total it was 1,700,000 yen per month. We didn’t understand how they came up with that number but then it turns out that the loan on our house was 1,200,000 yen (around 12,000 U.S. Dollars) per month. So that left 500,000 (around 5,000 U.S. Dollars) for other expenses. With that amount we couldn’t pay the Honbu bills. Dad didn’t have life insurance, so we didn’t get any benefits and we couldn’t change the loan. And he paid this to my aunt- never thru a lawyer while the cases were going on. And the loan was not paid so the interest rate was staggering.

He said he was acting "accordingly to the will" but it was stated clearly to give monthly payment to all family members and cover expenses which he, of course disregarded conveniently.

However on the day Matsui had to leave Honbu in 1999 after the eviction trial, the lawyers for Matsui asked back for the amount of money that they had paid since Sosai’s passing leaving Honbu. At that point, he claimed that the money he had paid was actually a “rent” for Honbu. In Japan, when a landlord asks a tenant to leave you need to pay a “leaving fee” for them to be able to rent another space. You can see that what he did was very calculating and for him to be able to trap us into negotiating with him. We were pretty much bankrupt by that point and we lost our home with still some payment left after the public auction.

I have also learned last year that the Matsui group shows bank transcriptions to people who question his treatment towards the family. No wonder people think we are being supported - how can one guess of such fabrication?

Q) What things happened around the time that Matsui was evicted from Honbu?

Around the same time, we learned that Midori had changed the ownership of Sosai’s gravesite from my mother to himself. My mother had her first stroke the next day. A culmination of all of these events was just too much for her I think.

In regards to Matsui, he was supposed to leave Honbu in March, but he actually left at the end of February. He had the front door of Honbu padlocked and chained. We thought it was very strange. When we went into Honbu in March we realized that everything was gone. At first we thought that we had been burglarized, so we went to the police. We called Matsui to see if he knew what had happened and he said, “Yeah, we moved everything”. I asked him why he moved everything and then he said that he would bring everything when he comes back. I asked him when he would be coming back and he said when he built his Honbu. So you can see that he took everything as a hostage.

Q) What kind of things did he take?

First, everything that was in the showcase of the first-floor dojo. He took photos, wall hangings, Sosai's taiko drums and his calligraphy writing. These were the kinds of things that are historically valuable. He even took the chairs. He still hasn’t given any of this stuff back but since we reported to the police and Matsui also admitted he has them he will not be able to sell publicly.

Q) Isn’t this a criminal matter?

That is why Mother and I went straight to the police. She was devastated. I got the detectives to come with me to the Budo Shop as well because on the day that Matsui was taking a lot of stuff out of Honbu, Kakuta from the Budo Shop came and took things of ours without permission too.
He was friends with my sister at that time and supposedly, he was just trying to collect as much as possible before Matsui took it. In reality, he was actually selling stuff to people. I went to Matsui’s Honbu with the detectives and the Budo Shop, but they both had lawyers there.
(Anyone reading this: Please do not go to the Budo Shop -- in my opinion the owner is a thief!)

Q) Were you able to get the stuff back?

Of course NO! It didn't make it as a criminal case. We did report to the police as soon as we left Honbu. I called Matsui from the police station in Ikebukuro. He insisted he was asked by Mother to care for them until he had returned to Honbu! I was standing right next to my mother! She was devastated. Now Matsui has changed his story and insists he bought them from my sister. It is absolutely absurd! She was the one who initiated the eviction of Matsui to begin with.

If the lawyer hadn’t been present they would have been taken away for questioning, but because I didn’t catch them red-handed all they could do was speculate. Due to this it became a civil matter. All of this is still continuing to this day.

Q) How do you feel about the Matsui group now?

I had formed much opinion on that man (laugh). And his cliques as well, Gorai and Tomita -- such an unfortunate combination.

In the beginning everybody was always asking us, “Why don’t you work with Matsui?” From my perspective now, I think there is always the chance to mend things because this is something Mother wanted. She was a very intuitive woman and loved Kyokushin students. But when I see how she was disrespected and mistreated in a most vile manner-especially by him.... it is not something that leaves one’s soul easily.

Mother always had such high regard for her husband’s, Sosai's students. She wanted to trust them even if she saw signs that they shouldn’t be trusted which was a detriment to us. She wanted to believe that they had little parts of Sosai in them. I think that they should all know that even after all the bad things that happened to her she didn’t really speak badly of the students to the day she died. She said: “I have two types of children. One is my biological children and the other is children of my husband’s sweat”. Because of this thinking she was taken advantage of- she was too kind-hearted.

Q) Why did the courts nullify Matsui’s registration of the Kyokushin trademarks?

In terms of the law, we said that they were trademarked illegally. It is not Matsui’s trademark to begin with. We petitioned for a total of 6 trademark registrations to be nullified and all were accepted.

There are many mysterious happenings around Matsui when we started to investigate- one of the being that there was a trademark of the word "Kyokushin" but is a different kanji and design. This was registered in Matsui's name when he was in his late teens! We were very spooked- I do not know what goes on in his head but there are many "veils" of illusion we don't understand in that man. It is almost as though he is in a completely different solar system.

Q) How do you see the importance of the Kyokushin trademarks?

It is important only because of the legal system and it's purpose is to keep the "structure". When people are given freedom to do whatever they want, that is exactly what people will do- whatever.

The thing that I don’t like in regards to people concentrating on the trademarks is that whilst it’s okay if you want to honor and feel proud of that particular name (Kyokushin) that you carry on, it’s also a name that has been fought over, and there has to come a time to put an end to the fighting and bring it all back to what it was about originally.

The important thing is that Kyokushin was not about the brand, it was about Sosai’s philosophy. It was something that Sosai lived and breathed. It is strange that so many students are fighting over the name but they have forgotten to try to live in accordance with the philosophy that the name represents.

Many of the lawyers involved in the cases often comment on how touched they are by Sosai’s philosophies and I think it is so ironic that many of the very students who trained with Sosai have forgotten or only partially refers to what it’s all about.

Activities like kendo, judo, or karate all have a philosophical spine to them. They have the character "Do" which means path or road. There’s always that deeper soul-searching level that resonates with the practitioner – and that’s the beauty of it. But I think in the case of Kyokushin many people have stopped looking at this level, which is a really sad thing. If they look at the philosophies embodied in the dojo-kun even, they should realize that what has happened and what is going on in Kyokushin.

Q) Why did you decide to resurrect Honbu after Matsui left?

At first it was out of a sense of desperation. Suzuki and I saw the way my mother was deteriorating: she was just devastated with everything, so we wanted to give her hope. We wanted her to know that that building she had with her husband (Honbu) was safe. When we decided to start the memorial hall Suzuki only had 800,000 (around 8000 U.S. Dollars) in savings, but he used it all to buy the carpet, paints, and the showcases. In the beginning it wasn’t such a grand political plan. It was out of such a small wish for my mother to have a place to feel at home.

Q) Who is Yoshikazu Suzuki?

When the family realized that my mother had a disease affecting her brain called Cytomegalovirus (this makes it difficult to tell left from right), I took her to a hospital for a proper examination. The told us that not much could be done about it. Anyway, I found a chiropractor that had a very good reputation for helping people walk again and even top fighters like Kazumi Hajime used to go and see him. At that time Suzuki was working at the chiropractic office as an assistant.

When I first met him I didn’t even know that he was a karate person, but he had actually been training since he was 15 at Akira Masuda’s dojo. He was a tournament fighter for the year or so before joining us in 1999. He saw the way that my mother had been treated and he realized that 99% of the rumours that people had been preading about us were just untrue. So he decided to help us with the things that we were going through and to build the memorial hall at Honbu. If he wasn’t around I wouldn’t have been able to pay my mom’s hospital bills.

Q) Who is Susumu Miyake?

He had been the committee chairman of Kyokushinkaikan under Sosai for many years and was always beside Sosai for the Black Belt Gradings, even for people such as Matsui and Midori. After Sosai’s passing he was with Matsui for a while, but later they had a falling out. He stopped involvement in the political arena for a while, but he was always kind to my mom. No matter what happened, he always took her out in December for her birthday. This is because when Sosai was alive he would always have a birthday party for my Mother with Mr. Miyake present. He came and worked with us at the dojo in 2000 again as Honbu Chairman after Matsui's eviction.

Q) Can you tell us about the leadership or organizational structures you have in place at Honbu now?

As of April this year (2009), Yoshikazu Suzuki has agreed to take on the role of Kancho, to steer Kyokushin in the right direction and ensure it is protected for future generations. He is a wonderful person and passionate karate ka. He is supported by Mr. Susumu Miyake as Honbu Technical Director. This was also Mother's wishes that Suzuki be in place of recognition for Kyokushin.

Q) How do you see your role in preserving Sosai’s legacy?

We all can have a role to do in Kyokushin, one way or another. The depth and intent may differ from person to person and the role I can fulfill now is to speak more openly and more affirmatively about what my parents envisioned and what we can do to be part of it. Very often, especially in Matsui's group and this is initiated by Gorai - students are told not to say Osu to the family members (laugh). His explanation is because we don't train! If the level of moral intelligence as such, it will never be about Sosai even if the "name" you train is called Kyokushin Karate.

There is a saying: “If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything”. What I stand for is very simple, and I don’t see why some people cannot embrace it. I don’t work for them; I work for my father, Sosai. When people become genuine about honouring Sosai, then they become a part of my interest.

I don’t really consider myself a karate person, but if I do go into the dojo, of course I’ll bow to them, because they mean so much to me when they are in my father’s dojo. Their strong point is that they were my father’s students, but I don’t think some understand their choices are completely severing themselves from Sosai. You look at the way Kyokushin had crumbled, people to this day, still love and talk about Sosai, so clearly his legacy is not going to be affected by us little people. But we can actually make it more about him if we come together.

Q) If you can ask Matsui something, what would you ask him?

I would like to know exactly who told him he was in succession by the "will" to Sosai even before the "will" came out in public. None of us knew the writing of it even took place.

This is the mystery to all of us- he was in Nepal, he was not in Japan, when Sosai passed away. Whether he was told by Sosai from earlier, as he now claims is the case, we will never know. I certainly never heard from my father's lips. But aside from that, having Umeda (one of the five witnesses to the invalidated will) stand up and announce Matsui's succession even before Sosai's body had been cremated is the out of the norm. Umeda not once said anything to my family, to my mother before making it a public spectacle. So Matsui not even flinching during this ordeal is just very unnatural. He never once addressed any of these issues- all he says is "I don't know". Well if you know enough- you want to take the chair left by Sosai, then know everything and do your homework, is what I say to this day.

More explicit interviews will be done over the next few months and will be posted on the ikososai.com website.